That was a simple answer...
This exchange with a friend who asked whether it made any difference where Pres. Obama was born, is below:
Thanks Robert, As I suspected, there's no simple answer...
....thanks and warm regards, T.
In a message dated 4/17/2011 1:12:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rs writes:
On Apr 17, 2011, at 8:55 AM, T. wrote:
Would "natural born citizen" include let's say Whitney if she were born of us but in a foreign country?
T.,
This is the Senator John McCain question; he was born in the Panama Canal Zone, an overseas possession of the U.S. by treaty, while his father, Admiral McCain, was stationed there.
The question arose when the senator was running for president.
The answer apparently didn't agitate some of his further-to-the-right supporters as much as does the make-believe question into the origins of Pres. Obama. Not a few in this country are unable to stomach the idea of a black president, the Civil War not quite being over and the South having won, except for this inconvenient political fact.
As for Trump, he married a beautiful Slovenian woman, so I don't think he has any moral superiority by claiming that Obama was foreign born. If she's good enough for him, she's good enough to be First Lady, there being no 'natural born' exclusion in the Constitution for beautiful Slovenians or First Ladies. His previous wife, Ivana, is also a beautiful and appealing foreign born mother of his children. Obviously, The Donald is a serial violator of the 'natural born' clause when it comes to those closest to him. Perhaps he wasn't looking at them quite as presidential timber while courting them, reserving that designation for himself.
I kinda like having the first foreign-born, Muslim president, myself, as it helps jettison a lot of unnecessary baggage; considering that he was raised by a white mother and grandparents, his father having gone off, I figure that altho' Obama's black, he's a lot more white; they don't teach a lot of Eblawnics at Harvard Law School, as far as I'm aware, and the rest of the world kinda likes the idea of him running the more-or-less Superpower. We sure have the hardware, don't we?
As for Article II, Sec. 5, it reads:
"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this constitution, shall be eligible for the office of president; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years and been fourteen years a resident within the United States."
The issue also arose when supporters promoted the Austrian-born Arnold Schwarzenegger as a potential presidential candidate; maybe some still do, regardless of Section 5. The question, then, might be whether the Court would entertain a legal challenge. The Court has rules of 'justiciability,' meaning what they will accept for review and what not. This is a matter of discretion but there are some well-delineated rules, such as that the question must be sufficiently important and, sometimes, rousing, or at least very important to the country. One of the major deterrents to acceptance is to have the justices regard the matter as 'political' in nature, in which case review is denied under this principle.
Although it takes five justices to decide a case in a full court, it only takes four justices to have a matter accepted for review, the theory being that if an issue or matter gets at least four votes right out of the box, it must be worth further consideration by the full Court; it's also possible, after acceptance, to have a matter denied review, i.e. the petition is "dismissed as 'improvidently' granted," or in Court shorthand, "DIG."
A case challenging a McCain or a Schwarzenegger presidential candidacy could conceivably be "DIGGED" even after review had been granted initially.
But when would the challenge have to be made?
The Court is unlikely to take such as case before the election, or even the swearing-in, because it would be premature, the issue not having fully arisen before the swearing-in. Prematurity is a well-established ground for denying justiciability; it's called the 'ripeness doctrine,' meaning that the issue is not quite ripe enough to be entertained, yet.
Do you think that the Court is likely to entertain a 'natural born' challenge after the new foreign-born president, McCain, or Schwarzenegger, has been elected by the popular vote following a contested election? And risk overturning a popularly elected president? It might. It did so in Bush v. Gore, allegedly to spare the country a period of uncertainty while the litigation rolled on, per Scalia. But it might not, especially if at least five on the Court favored the foreign born over the competition.
Deny on what ground post-swearing in? Could the issue be considered "moot?" Mootness is another well-known ground of non-justiciability.
The court might regard the popular vote, especially if it were large and persuasive enough, as a signal that the electorate, having fully in mind the 'natural born' disqualification, had decided to overrule or otherwise disregard it, treating it as time-expired and politically dead, as a practical, and especially political, matter, thus not worth further upsetting the country and forcing it through another election thereby compelling it to swallow an unacceptable candidate who had been previously rejected by the popular, or at least Electoral College, vote. The Court might then treat the matter as "political" meaning non-justiciable on that well-established ground. Whatever else it does, the Court does not like to risk whatever respect and authority, moral, political, and legal, that it enjoys, hoards, and guards, by going against the will of the people whose support it decidedly requires.
There's a famous, quite true, I believe, expression in this regard, stemming from cases arising after the 1898 war against Spain, when we first acquired colonies abroad, e.g. the Philippines, Puerto Rico, and other places, when the question arose:
Does the Constitution apply its guarantees and protections to our new brown-skinned people living abroad, in our new foreign colonies? That was a most race-conscious era, and I've loaded the question with red-flag terms for your edification and enjoyment. :)
A Puerto Rican importer to the States had complained about his goods, rum perhaps, or sugar, being taxed (via customs duties) upon importation here, in alleged violation of the constitutional provision that taxes must be uniform throughout the U.S.; also someone accused of murder in the Philippines had complained of being denied a jury trial, there, as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights to the Constitution, here. Does the Constitution follow the flag overseas?
The issue was so-framed in popular shorthand as "Whether the Constitution follows the flag or the flag follows the Constitution," giving rise to a famous quip by the fictional Irish bartender, Mr. Dooley, a creation of the writer, Finley Peter Dunne, c. 1906, that goes something like this:
"I dunno whether the flag follows the Constitution, or the Constitution follows the flag, but I do know that "th’ Supreme Court follows th’ illiction returns.”"
I think the best answer I can offer to your question is that by the time either McCain, Schwarzenegger, or the hypothetical Whitney, was sworn in as president, Mr. Dooley's maxim would surely carry the day, admittedly or not.
We're a sly bunch of foxes, you see, who make a virtue out of stealing second-base, third-base, and Home. We're not above putting a bit of moisture on the ball, literally and figuratively. Some of us even take steroids to keep up with the competition, believe it or not...
Getting around an archaic legalism such as 'natural born' shouldn't be a problem for us.
It's very good to hear from you, T.; have fun.
Bob